Wednesday, December 2, 2009

Missed the Boat Again...Or in this case the whole dock


When you are a party struggling to find a raison d'etre and you have an opportunity to vote down the secondmost hated tax in the history of Canada, you vote down the secondmost hated tax in the history of Canada.

It's no great secret that the Liberal party of Canada lives only by its survival in the provinces of Ontario, BC and Quebec. And, when you have now hopr in sight of gaining seats anytime soon in the praries, you must defend what you have.

We had an opportunity to separate ourselves from the stigma of "tax and spend Liberals" and from Stephen Harper and Jim Flaherty in general once and for all. Somehow it was perceived that we have to support our Provincial Liberal cousins in order to keep our "fighting forces" together.

Well let me remind everyone that Dalton McGuinty didn't give two shits about his federal cousins when he dropped a "Health Tax" on Ontarians in the middle of a Federal Writ period, costing Paul Martin a majority. In fact, during the last election wasn't McGuinty also "doing his own thing on environment" instead of backing a Liberal Green Shift?

When do we cut the cord and get some balls? I know nothing.




Peter Loewen said...

I'd like to play chess with you sometime.

Liberal Justice said...

Well there's a newsflash, you disagree with Ignatieff. Once you get elected leader you can make these decisions. Until then, it's Ignatieff's job to make these decisions and we should support him as our leader, even if we disagree occassionally. But on this one he made the right decision. And what other decision did he really have?!

James Curran said...

Here's a newsflash, when 68 percent of the voters don't want a tax, they tend to vote governments out. The choice is to listen to the common man. That's the choice. The man on the strret that says enough is enough.

This isn't about Michael. This is about the everyday Canandian that's fed up with being taxed to death.

The GST thing didn't work out too we'll for one Brian Muldoon did it. In the meantime Chretien took full advantage of it and campaigned against it, therby winning three straight majorities. And, you claim to be a lifelong Liberal. Perhaps you forgot the history of taxation and political defeat.

Peter Loewen said...

I don't know where to start. First, the HST will turn out to be neutral in its effects for the majority of citizens. Second, it's better for the economy. Third, Chretien's three majorities are not attributable to him promising to scrap the GST and then changing his mind. Fourth, the GST may have been bad politics for Mulroney, but it was good policy. Fifth, by opposing the HST, Ignatieff would take a position contrary to that long championed by Martin and Chretien. Sixth, he would make reelection more difficult for Liberals in BC and Ontario. You may not value this, but lot's of people who work both sides of the party do. Seventh, sometimes politics is about more than kneejerk reactions. Eighth, such shortsightedness doesn't suggest great political acumen. Just saying.

James Curran said...

I don't know where to finish.

1. Revenue neutral my ass. If it was neutral we wouldn't be imposing it. Paying 13% on all accounting bills, legal bills, real estate commissions etc etc etc. is not revenue neutral.
2. It's the only thing the provincial gaovernments can do, and I agree with it. Unfortunately, I don't agree with the fed libs owning it too.
3. Um. Chretien's first majority was alllllll about the GST and jobs, jobs, jobs my friend.
4. Who cares iif it was good policy if you ended up with two seats when it was all said and done. It obviuosly wasn't good policy to the voters now was it.
5. Um, Martin and Chretien both become Prime Ministers, no?
6. The Liberals in BC and ONT are doing this because they have majorities. if they had minorities this wouldn't even be talked about. And, no, I don't think either will be re-elected, certainly not with majorities.
7Those of us who work both sides of the party would be guys like me. Guys like me who aren't afraid to tell their own party when they disagree with some policy or another. Since a a provincial riding president and sit on two federal ridings, I believe that would make me both sides of the party type of guy.
7. My thoughts are anything but kneejerk. 68% of Ontarians don't want the HST. Hardly kneejerk.
8. MY political acumen, my friend isn't wrong very often. And that is well, well documented.

Peter Loewen said...

1. The accepted rationale for the HST is that it is good economic growth and efficiency (which it is). it is not a revenue grab via the tax. If it was, then why did the feds have to pay the provinces to implement?
2. Ah, I see. The job of the federal party is not to identify with good policy and support provinces that implement it. Rather, you think it's to just take the most popular side on each issue. Some federation. Some federalist.

Good to know you think highly of McGuinty's chances of reelection.

I'll gladly hear your wagers on what will happen in the next election. Money where your mouth is?


CanadaDave said...

Opposing something because it's unpopular is political opportunism, plain and simple.

The voters may not like the HST at the moment, but opposing it just because they don't isn't leadership. It's pandering. Judge the tax on it's own merits, and based on what you've said above, you need some work on getting your facts straight.

Going by what I've seen here, I can't support you. Sorry.

James Curran said...

Yes that's right Dave. That's what we're fighting here. A government that governs by pandering. If you don't see that, then you must be blind.

And I'm never going to second guess the likes of Jean Chretien. Just saying.

What exactly aren't you supporting me for? Just axin'.

James Curran said...


James Curran said...

Did I say 68%? I meant 75%.