The most despised leader in the history of the Liberal Party, Paul Martin, and his team of team killers were not scrutinized with such microscopic precision as is happening to Stephane Dion and his conviction for a Fairer, Richer, Greener Canada.
How exactly did the Toronto Star obtain a copy of Michael Marzolini's internal memo? Which RAT gave it up for "anonymous" reasons?
UNBELIEVABLE. Chretien/Martin revisited.
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What, exactly, are you upset about -- the leaking of the memo, or the fact of its content being made public?
If it's the former, then the Star can justify it as news -- documented proof of dissention within the Liberal ranks, that the public should be aware of. Given the turmoil evident in Liblogs, this is hardly a secret that needs to be kept.
If it's the latter, then the Star can still justify it as evidence of Dion's character. We know that he *does* listen to certain people -- remember that he wanted to call a bluff on confidence, but was talked into an abstention strategy in Parliament. This memo shows that there are certain people he *doesn't* listen to. You can speculate as to the reasons, but it's still an important bit of character insight.
A few years ago when a number of liberal bloggers were busy knifing the party in the back over adscam I advised some of them that this was leading their party down a dark path they wouldn't be able to escape from. Of course, since I didn't possess a Liberal Party membership nobody listened to me.
I'd like to know where such a leak came from. Which RAT in the party gave it to Diebel.
One thing about it Robert, I won't be knifing anyone in the back. They'll know right up front where they stand with me.
Right Liza?
What the fuck is wrong with you ? Paul Martin is not the most despised liberal leader. I don't know what you have smoked today but just go take a walk and breathe. We lost. Get over it. Dion was a nice guy but a tough sell.
And if you remember, Paul Martin resigned on election night to make sure he wouldn't be pushed aside.
If you remember, Paul Martin got to run in two elections....just like every other leader in the history of this party save for Edward Blake.
And take your Michael Ignatieff loving ass out for a walk and smoke some doobies yourself you self-righteous, pompous ass. Ignatieff LOST! GET OVER IT!!!!
Yeah, Alex, Martin sure would know about pushing people out. And you know as well as I do that it's awfully tough to sell with the wrong salespeople.
Yeah, that's so much better, James. An opposition party that is fighting itself is exactly what Canada needs.
I didn't start this fight, but I sure's hell ain't no wallflower.
Paul Martin won in 2004 for your information...
Why are you talking about Michael Ignatieff ? This is so wrong.
Dion did a very good campaign. I saw it. I was on his tour. He's a great man and we all gave everything that we had to make him win. I never worked less than 14-16 hours/day during 40 straight days to try to make us win. Same thing for everyone on that team. Talk to Mick, to Charlotte, to Connie, to Gianluca, to Alphee, to Mike, to Andrew, Herb and all the others. We all did our best and it didn't work.
I felt terrible on Tuesday night but we have to get our shit together and make sure we can beat Harper next time.
This is why the Liberals will never get along..I am a good Liberal , but I see no use in calling names and making matters worse. Let's get over things..we will never win if attitudes are going to remain like this. I do not know where dissing Mr. Ignatieff is going to get you. I am not a follower of him, but I respect him.
You want wrong Alex! I tell you what's wrong! His team is already selling memberships. That's wrong wouldn't you say? Of course I doubt you'll agree.
As I said Liz. I didn't start this garbage, but I won't see OUR leader be trampled all over by people with hidden agendas. That's the long and the short of it. I know lots of background on this and people like Alex have some agendas that don't fit in line with the leader shall we say.
"His team is already selling memberships."
Did you actually write that James? Are you actually councilling that MP's, regardless of their motivation, not sell memberships?
Cheers,
lance
Wow. A blast from the past. I don't think we've talked since the last leadership Lance.
Being overly combative isn't good either.
It's the press that keep this bashing and trashing going.
Remember - Harper disappeared for a few days when he lost in 2004.
The childish blame game has to stop.
Dion didn't connect. He's a nice guy and all, but he didn't connect.
This is the fault of Ignatieff, Rae, or anyone else - they didn't give him his personality.
I'm tired of this constant bickering and blame game in the party and the blogs.
Sorry Sandi, but He never was given a chance to connect until the debates. All Canadians heard was he wasn't a leader. And this party NEVER countered that. EVER. The Cons would have done it to Rae and Iggy too if they had won.
Getting back to your original point: since you don't dispute that the leak is defensible as newsworthy, why refer to its source as a "rat?"
I mention this because "rat" as you use it here is a term normally applied to members of organizations considered contrary to the social order, and I'm pretty sure you don't consider the Liberal Party to be such a thing.
I don't think the outrage should be at the leaked letter, but at Dion and his small team of loyalists that ignored the letter and proceed to lead the party to electoral oblivion, saved not by an adequate Dion debate performance but the tanking economy.
Was never an Igantieff supporter, but the writing is on the wall and the organizing starts this weekend.
Dion should stay on as MP and be a minister in the next Liberal leaders government.
I consider the person that leaked an internal document to the press to be a rat. The person obviously has a "hidden agenda" that is not in the best interest of Mr. Dion or the Liberal Party.
See ya at leadership then.
I read you James, I didn't comment much due to our diametrically opposed views on a certain Liberal candidate in the northern part of my Province. Tact vs. confrontation, so to speak.
I did kind of drift off when you went on your, "I hate the Liberals lets talk about wildlife" stage. . . .
In this I tend to agree with you, I'm kind of hoping that on Monday Dion comes out and announces he's staying just so I can see the looks on Mike and Bob's faces.
I agree with some of Steve V. in saying that Dion did get better. I wonder if SD is debating whether he's good enough to win over support in a leadership review. Can the party _afford_ to do the review, a leadership race and then a convention? Or just one?
Dion could be holding the Liberal party over the barrel, so to speak.
Cheers,
lance
Well said there Lance.
David has some soul searching to do.
I personally think a new leadership spells the end of this party for a generation. Just what Harper is trying to accomplish.
Dion would have to apologize to some people and open his eyes to others for him to stay. I wouldn't rule out Dion staying.
If Chretien could not fight off a leadership review than I'm afraid Dion with Brian Wilfort and the horrible Marlene Jennings as his only caucus supporters is going to lose. Add to that he only managed 17% of the vote from Liberals in the 06 leadership and he had no organizational base to pull support from, no friends, and no hope to keep his job.
A leadership review loss, than a leadership would be the WORST thing for the party. Much worse than another leadership race.
But to stop the senseless leadership fighting for a second. WHAT MUST NOT BE LOST in this is the importance for the May convention to be about POLICY.
The Liberal Party has been without a issue since 2000 with the slaying of the deficit. We need a new direction (a non Green shift direction)
Excuse me, local grit, but why do you call Marlene Jennings horrible?
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