..."I remember what he did to Ontario."
The What Do I Know Grit: "Dude! You were 3 f*ckin' years old!!!"
21 year old:
Cue the crickets.
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- James Curran
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25 comments:
Yeah it's an absurd line coming out of the Ignatieff camp.
A global recession hit just after Rae was elected. That's what happened to Ontario.
Will this 21 year old be remembering what Obama did to the US years from now, because that economy is going down the toilet fast.
It's absurd.
Now THAT is funny!
21 year old on Hitler:
"I remember what Hitler did to the jews"
James Curran:
"Dude you weren't even born yet."
21 year old:
"Oh yeah, because I wasn't born, or because I wasn't around when it happened, that means I have no grasp on the cause and effect recorded by history."
And this isn't comparing Rae to hitler, it's comparing the abuse of logic that suggests you have to be there to know history.
-scott
thescottross
Dear Koolaid,
that is the stupidest thing you've EVER written. EVER.
James:
It demonstrates immaturity to criticize as you just did without any substance of any kind.
Koolaid refers to those supporters who have no rationale of their own, it's ironic by not presenting any reason or justification to your claim, you have given the appearance of drinking that exact koolaid.
-scott
thescottross
Generally when people say that they remember something, not of global historic importance in the recent past, it means well, that they remember it. The 21 year old could have said, I've heard about it, or I studied it, or it effected my parents etc. To say that he himself remembered it is not only absurd, but obviously probably parroting lines fed to him by the Ignatieff camp.
It is significanty different than saying "We Remember" collectively at rememberance ceremonies etc.
And by the way, Hitler comparisons always make people seem stupid.
I personally buy James' take on it. The 21 year old is absurd to say, "I remember" what Bob Rae did to Ontario.
Mentioning Hitler in the same sentence as Bob is pretty stupid. Not to mention outright offensive to Bob's Jewish family. I'm certain his wife and cildren would not be impressed either.
Refresh my memory Scott. How old are you again?
SK: I clearly said I was not comparing Rae to Hitler, I was comparing the flawed logic involved.
I remember how Trudeau won in 1980, yet I wasn't born. That's not of global importance. I remember when expo hit Vancouver, yet I was less than three years old. That's not of global importance.
A 21 year old doesn't have to be older to remember what happened in Ontario when he was three years old.
-scott
thescottross
James: Can you read my initial comment, specifically this statement: "And this isn't comparing Rae to hitler, it's comparing the abuse of logic that suggests you have to be there to know history."
Did you read that the first time? Because if you did I'm baffled at how you could suggest that was offensive.
I'm 25 years old Mr.Curran, and though you look much older, by your continual use of the word "stupid" instead of rational discussion I'm left thinking you may be one of the most immature libloggers.
-scott
thescottross
25. That makes you 7 when Bob was running the province during the worst rescession in the history of Canada... until now.
Me? I was in my 8th year of selling real estate. Don't pretend you know what the hell was going on in Ontario when you were 7 Scott. It's just not "rational".
Had Peterson won that election, he would have been labeled the "worst Premier in the history of Ontario".
Maybe my post should have been called 25 year old on Bob Rae.
James: It is ridiculous for you to suggest one can only talk about things only if they were a live or had a well enough developed memory. It is ridiculous because people can do research and know what happened.
And just because you were older than I at the time does not mean you even know anything about Rae's tenure, as you could have been as you are now, someone who believes appearance trump substance.
-scott
thescottross
You win Scott. It was Rae's fault. And he caused a worldwide recession. Kinda like harper caused this one.
Anyway, talk amongst yourself oh wise one.
Geez - he didn't word it right - get out the rifles. He could have said I remember reading or studying or hearing my parents talk.
This argument stupid.
Gosh, I remember when Trudeau was elected, both Kennedys shot, Martin Luther King shot and the Rae days....it's not his fault of course that there was a recession, but how he handled it is another thing. I remember those days and his connections with union bad boys raising funds for him, sleazy people around him and his friendships with him.
Okay, I'm going to get attack and shot now.
Anonymous, let me be clear. You used a Hitler analogy. It makes you look stupid. Not to metion offensive and I am Jewish, so is Bob Rae's family.
Crikey, there's some feisty back and forths going on here.
I was much older than 3 when Bob Rae was Premier and even when I was 3 I knew the difference between fact and propaganda. i.e. "Eat your spinach, I know it tastes bad but it'll make you strong like Popeye."
I still can't find anyone who thinks Bob Rae's record as Ont Premier trumps being one of the main public cheerleaders for George Bush's march into Iraq.
Best to just call it a stalemate, move on and ask:
Leadership Dudes, what have you done for us lately?
Give me a couple of minutes to strap on my kevlar vest before the anonymous shooting begins.
:)
By the way Rural Sandi, breaking the social contract was not something the "union boys" were very happy about or advocated. You're arguement there is pretty weak. Bob Rae stood up to the unions and paid a steep price for it too.
Whether he actually remembers it or not is really irrelevant. What the problem here is that what he does know about isn't necessarily the whole story or the truth of the matter.
It's better compared to the problem of the Columbus tale in the US. Students learn about the glorified, historically incorrect version of Christopher Columbus and until further education is done, many believe he's this great discoverer, etc.
Rae's story, as it stands is better judged by those who were actually there and do remember and experienced the effects of the actions he took to deal with a situation that was no fault of his. And each of us experienced something different within those events.
And anonymous, the more I think about it the angrier i get.
Hitler was responsible for 6 million Jewish deaths in death camps, 3 million deaths of people of other origins in death camps and 11 million other civillians and military personale in Europe.
20 million deaths in Europe, without the totals in the Pacific.
HOW DARE YOU, three days after rememberance day trivialize 20 million deaths with your piece of crap analogy. Remembering 20 million deaths with a collective human consciousness has NOTHING to do with the Premier of Ontario breaking a social contract to save money in a rescession. NOTHING!
HOW DARE YOU!
I can also tell you as a member of a profession that was subject to Rae days, all of us, and i mean all of us, would take Rae days over what Mike Harris did to us, not to mention single mothers, students, and those on assistance.
That's the hindsight of people who did live through it. Sure people were pissed off about their contracts being broken and their wages or social benefits frozen. There was a global recession.
Contrast that to Mike Harris who totally gutted public sector spending and social benefits, reducing budgets and cutting programs rather than asking for concesions.
What Bob Rae did was a) necessary and b) a hundred times better than Mike Harris.
And who better to contrast that difference when the Harper cabinet is full of Harris Tories. If You don't think Bob's record can stand up to Flahrety, then you didn't live through it and you don't remember it.
I do.
James - please remove my response. I just read some stuff about on another blog about Rae then researched it on Google...and now wish I hadn't mentioned it.
About the Hitler thing - how can anyone in their right mind relate Rae to Hitler? Rae's wife and kids a Jewish.
Seems to me, in desperation, people who don't like someone, find a way to connect them with Hitler.
Now Liberals partisans might remember why they elected Dion in the first place.
SK,
I agree with many of the things you say about Bob Ray but I think you are misunderstanding Scott. I went back and read what he wrote and no way was he comparing Rae to Hitler. He just used Hitler as time perspective. Scott is not always right but he is no anti-semite
Scott: While I realize that you weren’t comparing Bob Rae to Hitler I'm certain that you could have come up with a more appropriate example to use in your comparison…Your immaturity continues to shine through.
I'm old enough to remember the Rae days. I'm not old enough to remember the First World War. I have learnt about WWI, but I experienced Rae's term in office. A 21 year old is unlikely to remember the same thing, but there's nothing to say he doesn't know about it.
That small semantic clarification aside, as far as I'm concerned, Rae was one of the best conservative premiers we've ever seen. Certainly far better than Harris and his "common sense even if it defies logic, get out of office before the deficit shows up" toadies.
So I'm not sure what the problem is for Liberals. He's clearly capable of adapting his policies to suit the economic environment, and not afraid to make tough choices based on some sort of logic, even if those choices alienate his supporters. Nobody seems to ask what things would have looked like if he had followed the NDP party line... but I guarantee they would have been much worse.
But then again he goes and puts his foot in his mouth while announcing his Liberal leadership bid, so who can say for sure?
Actually, Bob didn't put his foot in his mouth. Kevin Page came out and said as much later in the day. Something about a $10billion deficit over the next 2 years.
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