Saturday, November 8, 2008

If You Wanna Bad-Mouth Ignatieff, Rae and Leblanc

Then this is the blog for you. I tell ya, unless you threaten someone or someone's family or abuse the other commenters on this site, all your leadership opinions will be welcome here.

You see, this leadership bullshit has to stop sooner than later. That's just my opinion. The Liberal Party has had as many leaderships as there's been elections. So some of my blogging friends won't like me much in the months to come. Nonetheless you're welcome to come in and join the conversation. After all, this is all about renewal. Isn't it?

Not really though. It's all about same old same old. Martinites fighting Chretienites. Iggy fighting Rae (which is really the exact same fight if you look under the bubble). If you think it's anything but, you are not paying attention. And so on and so on.

Should I finally accept a position on a leadership campaign, I will naturally blog for that candidate. But, you can feel free to jump in when you like. I will remind you though, that will not preclude me from stating the obvious about your candidate.

You know. I didn't want Liberals fighting Liberals again, but the brass in this party and the so-called elected MPs haven't got their shit together enough to support our smart, honest, young current leader. So fight we will. And, I'm gonna bet that this alleged civility thing between some leadership camps is just that - alleged.

The shills are already at the trough banging away for their boys. That's okay though. Some of us will try and balance it all out in the end. Why? Why. Because the Conservatives will be picking up on the candidates shortfalls anyway, so we might as well get 'em all out in the open now.

Nobody's perfect. Least of all yours truly. However, if you want to lead the party I belong to, I think I'm entitled to question your judgement, your past actions and your future intentions.

To my blogging friends and regular readers, I expect fully to try and maintain our relationships when this is all over and done with. Should I decide to stay neutral, for lack of conviction or excitement, I will try and balance everyone's successes and shortfalls equally.

So, feel free to begin your venting now.




penlan said...

I, for one, don't care for any of the leadership contenders so far, including Iggy when he jumps in. And I don't see anyone in the Party who can fit the bill.

I'd prefer to see Dion stay on as leader. He deserves another chance & I believe he's learned a lot from his 1st election as leader. Things he could put to excellent use & rise above all the crap & games of the Cons & also respond differently to what they did to him from the day he was elected leader. And his English accent has vastly improved & would continue to do so.

The only other way I can see any promise in a new leader would be someone who comes in from outside the party, who has no ties or allegiance to any old factions, or somewhat newer ones, within the party. If we want change then that's the way to do it.

bigcitylib said...

I find I don't hate Iggy as much as I used to. Please help me. Obviously I need it.

Lord of Wealth said...

Just keep repeating
toe tags

and you'll eventually get your hate on again.

Mala Fides said...

My only hope is that if the convention remains in Vancouver that Ignatieff and his BC operatives use the convention to forward a motion that British Columbia should be constitutionally recognized as a nation.

I think that Ignatieff's desire to push Canadians in a divisive political/sociological science project is a great idea!!!

Maybe he can even pick up a few more delegates at the expense of national unity.

RuralSandi said...

Infighting and outfighting - lovely, just lovely

Can't debate - have to hate.

S.K. said...

The Conservatives need one add against Iggy. "Not a Canadian" Anyone who spent 37 years living outside of Canada, his entire adult life, and only came back to deign us with his presence if he can be PM is disqualified, sorry. 37 years. He left in 1969 and came back two and a half years ago. Lots of Liberal don't even know that.

"Not a Canadian" One add. No one in Tim Horton's drinking English Canada will vote for him. In the US not only do you have to be born a US citizen to be President, you have to have lived in the country for the last 15 years, excepting military service. I agree with that rule. If he wants to live here for 15 years, I'll consider him. Neither of his wives is Canadian. his children aren't Canadian. He just isn't Canadian, except on his passport.

The other thing is, the anyone but Iggy camp is exactly the same as it was a year two years ago. He can go to convention with 38% of the delegates and leave with 44% in second place. You either like the guy or you don't, at all. He can't win if he can't get over 50%

I am by the way, not a supporter of anyone per say, but I would vote against that man no matter who was in second place. He's not Canadian.

S.K. said...

By the way, people who have debt should be allowed to run. They should just have to pay it off before they can collect anything for this race. And there should be a sizable non refundable deposit of at least 100,000. If you don't have 100,000 and you can't pay off debts in 2 years, then you shouldn't be running again. Just my opinion, but having these people in the leadership race doesn't make us stronger or more diverse. It drags us down and makes us look like a mickey mouse organisation.

They can run, just find more money.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for giving us a place to vent. You might want to charge us for the therapeutic benefits though.

I can't speak about Iggy too much. My eyes roll back in my head, I foam at the mouth and start talking in tongues. Gotta stop or I'm worried I might injure myself.

Mala Fides said...

Is criticism now considered hate?

From what I witnessed from the last leadership contest, Team Ignatieff simply read Susan Delacourt's book 'Juggernaut' and without acknowledging the damage that Team Martin did to the Party,they have used the same strategy and tactics as a battle plan to win Iggy the leadership.

Does this kind of behaviour engender team spirit, loyalty or good faith?

Just look at the Convention rules that the Ignatieff team is trying to push forward:

A) the shortest possible leadership race;

B) a very high spending cap;

C) a limited pool of leadership candidates;

D) a "non-aggression" pact (only with respect to aggression against the Ignatieff campaign - Team Iggy alreay demonstrated that they aren't going to abide the rules of decorum that were set out when they forced Rae to announce his intention to run earlier than he had wanted.)

All of these rules benefit a candidate who has not stopped campaigning since the last leadership.

This kind of passive aggressive behaviour on the part of Team Iggy is not going to fly.

Ignatieff has shown with his positions on Iraq, Quebec nation, torture, as well as the blatant and continuing full court press campaign over the past two years, and the incessant leakage of internal information from unnamed sources, that he and his people have no interest in anything other than forwarding his hope to one day be prime minister.

The Liberal Party is simply a vehicle for his self-interest and the self-interest of his operatives.

Liberals and Canadians saw right through him and that's why his campaign has petrified and why it failed to grow after the first ballot in Montreal.

If the Liberal "leadership" truly has the best interests of the Party in mind this weekend, we will see the rules for the leadership reflect the hopes and desires of the grassroots to truly renew the party. Not to simply renew it for a single transient leadership candidate, but to put the Party on track to be competitive in the 21st Century.

That being said, grassroots Liberals across the country are closely watching the results of this weekend's LPC executive meeting.

RuralSandi said...

I prefer not to hate anyone. We also don't have the right to decide who is Canadian or not - remember what the right wing tried to do to Dion because he had duel citizenship.

We have MP's that haven't been in Canada all that long, have obtained their citizenship and ran for government.

Iggy did not give up his Canadian citizenship and take another. He was back and forth all those years.

He was BORN and raised in Canada - he's Canadian by birth and by citizenship.

So, enough of that BS.

You know, many of our Canadian born MP's got their college educations in the US - are they no longer Canadian?

My niece's sister-in-law is and has been teaching at Harvard for many years - is she no longer Canadian?

Yup, enough of that BS

Ti-Guy said...

I just rely on Ignatieff's own public statemnents. The ones he expressed in his capacity as a respected human rights professor who held a position at a prestigious university:

Ignatieff says that the United States had inadvertently established "an empire lite, a global hegemony whose grace notes are free markets, human rights and democracy, enforced by the most awesome military power the world has ever known."

...And I start seeing red (and not Liberal red) again.

Mala Fides said...

Agreed Sandi, he is Canadian.

And I am sure he is a 'real' Liberal too.

These types of attacks have no place and are entirely offensive.

James Curran said...

Sandi, I want you to take a deep breath and think, just for a minute, what the Conservative attack ads will be saying about these three candidates. Then I want you to figure out which one will be the easiest to defend.

S.K. said...

Um visitng isnot living in Canada. Sure he has a Canadian passport, but not living in Canada his entire adult life, makes him more Brittish or American than Canadian. And you don't have to believe me, but Tim Horton's drinking, English speaking Canadians will. One add, "Not a Canadian" That's all it takes to defeat Ignatieff in a general election. He really doesn't qualify for the job.

The other thing is every, scientist, technician, doctor, teacher, professor, MBA, nurse, sports professional, coach or judge, arts professional etc. can move to the US and make more money. Do you really think those that chose to stay, because they love Canada and would rather live here, will vote for someone who didn't?

I know lots of people, some family, who have chosen to live in the States, and raise their children there for decades. None of them should be Prime Minister of Canada.

17 said...

Wouldn't it be great if Ignatieff and Rae came out and said after thinking and talking about the issue they have decided to support Dion as leader of the party because he is in fact "A Leader".

This would have the advantage of not given the CPC any more fuel for attack ads, there would be no need for a leadership convention, and we could get on with opposing this horrible government and begin preparing for the next election.

Of course this won't happen and as Liberals we will probably be relegated to the sidelines for at least another 4-10 years.

S.K. said...

Did I say every doctor and professional other than lawyers. I mean every professional, or person of talent, can get a green card and work in the States for more money. Why would they vote for the guy who did to be Prime Minister of Canada?

RuralSandi said...

I don't know much about LeBlanc other than his father was in politics. I saw a professor say the other night on Steve Paikin's, The Agenda, that LeBlanc was a student of his and LeBlanc is the ultimate back room boy.

Anyone know much about him?

Becoming said...

Thank you Ti-Guy for expressing so well what I feel about Ignatieff & 17, I'd like to echo your entire post.

As a liberal, I was inspired to vote Liberal again because of M. Dion, but his lack of support by the Party certainly gives me no reason to stay.

I cannot support Rae, and I certainly cannot support Ignatieff - I think that many of us with liberal values will run screaming if the Party goes in that direction.

But I think that they will. The only upside to that is that once the party is completely reduced to rubble there will be nothing for the backroom boys to stay for and the grassroots might be able to slowly rebuild. Unfortunately, it will take a long time & I'm not sure what will be left of our country by then.

I've been following a lot of the commentary, especially the "We weren't able to sell him"
To answer politely, B.S.!

If I, with no Party connections and not having received even a speck of campaign literature was able to convince both a staunch conservative supporter and the father of a campaign worker for the NDP to change their vote to Liberal in just two short phone calls one evening, then obviously you could only have been working against him.

RuralSandi said...

James - I don't need your advice, but thank you anyway. Hey, who was more contraversial than Trudeau.

I don't know who is running yet, and I haven't decided anything yet - I just hate this combative, sleazy attack stuff.

S.K. - your rants are becoming obsessive.

The CPC will make mincemeat out of each of the candidates. They're probablty getting LeBlanc's attack package ready as we speak now that he's declared he's running.

Funny, seems for certain people - it's their way of thinking or the highway and bullying. Nice, charming.

ottlib said...

I see the Conservative/Republican style of politics has seeped into Liberals. Some of the comment to this post are unbelievable.

Particularly the hatred towards Mr. Ignatieff. And it is hatred.

I am not certain why he creates such a visceral response from folks because he is not nearly as bad as they say. Personally, I believe it is more a reflection on the folks who are expressing this hatred than any of the candidates.

I washed my hands of the Liberal Party and this leadership race a few weeks ago because I firmly believe the Liberal Party has caught a terminal case of the stupids. Judging by the idiocy on display in the commnents to this post my diagnosis is bang on.

In_The_Centre said...

The are all good candidates and they all have different strategies for victory. Most importantly, they all represent the big tent nature of our party.

Finally, they are all better politicians then Dion because they can motivate and rely on their own base of supporters.

I will be supporting MI (I Think), but I would be happy with a Rae led or Leblanc led party.