Thursday, July 17, 2008

Lawrence Martin gets it Right on Khadr and Harper

"Defending the indefensible" is my favourite line. Here's the rest.


jaybird said...

James: when is Dion or when will Cotler explain why Khadr was left to be tortured in Gitmo for approximately 4 years under their watch?

I single out Dion because he is now the leader of your party and Cotler because as then Justice Minister and given his pre-electoral career as a respected human rights and constitutional lawyer he should have argued for Khadr's repatriation and if he couldn't convince the cabinet and then PM (either Chretien or Martin) then he should have resigned his cabinet post if not his seat.

The NDP has consistently demanded that the then Liberal and now Con governments live up to Canadian values and our international commitments to UN conventions (rights of the child AND child soldier) and repatriate Khadr and either bring him to trial or rehabilitate him in accordance with these conventions.

Unless or until LPC MPs and former cabinet ministers acknowledge they were WRONG on this one they will have zero credibility on this issue.

James Curran said...

Um. I'm quite certain lawrence explains the position well in this article. As usual though, the NDP supporters continue to live in the past and attack Liberals instead of the current and largest problem at hand...Harper.

I've warned you and others before, people are getting sick of your banter about Liberals. It's embarrassing.

Even in the in-and-out hearings, Mulcair and Martin were more concerned about how the CBC and Liberals got to the Conservative offices more than they were concerned over the taxpayers doling out $750,000 in illegal refunds.

It's easy for the NDP to just sit there and bash whomever they like. They'll never EVER form government.

Pathetic really.

James Curran said...

Oh. By the way The Liberals sent a letter as soon as Khadr was arrested asking US officials not to sent him to Guantanamo.

James Curran said...

As for Cotler? Here's his official position on the matter

jaybird said...

James james james - Liberals can't claim that they deserve to be re-elected because of their history of good governance (debatable but it is a recurring argument) and not expect others to critique their past performance.

Since you are a realtor, I will make it easy for you. I wouldn't buy a house without having it inspected, or without making sure all the paper work was in order. Why would I support a political party without looking at not only its current policies but also its past actions (or in the case of the Liberals on so many progressive issues, their lack of action).

But instead of addressing what is a very legitimate question - Why the Liberal Party ignored the case of Omar Khadr (minus a couple of coverage your ass bureaucratic moves) - you repeat the painful old saw that the NDP shouldn't do its job which is to represent a real progressive option on the Canadian political field.

The NDP will also continue to hammer away at the Cons unlike Dion's Liberal caucus who ran from every fight in the last session. Canadians are tired of the Liberal Party's Artificial Opposition.

James Curran said...

The NDPs haven't hammered away at the Cons for over a year. Give your head a shake. Go vote for the Cons if you think they are so great. Vote for Jack too while you're at it...the fact remains, you'll never be in power and never be in oppostion. You are destined to be the fourth seated group in the House forever and eternity. That's reality.

What's also real is that Irwin Cotler continues to fight for Omar Khadr in abundance while you continue to attack his postion as Attorney General. Irwin Cotler forgot more about human rights then you, Stephen Harper, Jack Layton and Rob Nicholson combined will ever know. Go attack Rob Nicholson for a change. Live in the present.

And, what the F@ck does me being a realtor have anything to do with this?

jaybird said...

Chill guy. The realtor analogy was just that an analogy based on a subject that I would imagine you have some familiarity with. Nothing more. You happened to mention you were a realtor in a previous post, other than that and what you say on your blog I know zip about you.

In terms of Cotler, I am very familiar with Mr. Cotler's history and that is why I found his lack of public action on this while in government very disappointing.

You yourself were unhappy with your party's abstention policy. I think there were 42 (plus) important votes (confidence votes) in the HOC and the LPC abstained or voted WITH Harper for at least 40 of them. So the NDP has been critical of Harper and his crew not only in speeches, statements and in the media but also where and when it counts in the House of Commons.

wilson said...

Yes, Liberal inaction is explained in the article:

''..The Liberals chickened out on taking tough action to repatriate the teenager years ago, when the case didn't have the profile it does today..''

It goes further to say that because chretien & martin pissed off Bush, they figured there was no use trying to get any favours, so they didn't try.

So that's why the Libs would go to papa Khadr's bedside and get him sent back to Canada (so he could kill again)....but leave his son, a defenceless little 15 year old child, in prison.

IMO the 'entire' Khadr family should be deported to Pakistan.

RuralSandi said...

JayBird - the NDP are going to go after the CONS? When is that going to start?

Yup, again Harper is pulling Layton's strings.

Also, until all info is out there, no one can judge why or why not the Libs left him there.

One thing - more info has come out about US lies, rulings of their Supreme Court, etc. This is more complicated than NDP's views on everything - really important stuff like ATM fees.

I find it funny that Layton is "posturing" (because it's safe for him to do so) when only 11% of Canadian trust the NDP on the economy and right now the economy is a big issue.

11% trust Layton and the NDP on this - and he's playing like he wants and election. What a joke.

James Curran said...

Well Sandi, you left out the all important big time issue that the Dippers are sure to win an election on...text messaging! You know, the same cell phone companies that David Mcguinty, a Liberal, is already taking to task?

Mala Fides said...

Chretien? Martin?

Maybe you should go back to 2003 and read what yer buddy Steve Harper would have had Canada do.

We would presently be in Iraq with a body count in the 100s.

Guantanamo should be closed down. There is no doubt about that, but to lay Khadr at the feet of the Liberals and to forget Harper's position at the time is nice and convenient.

And Jaybird, when is your 'leader' going to stop attacking the Liberals who kept us out of Iraq and start going after Harper, whose policies your party allegedly is opposed to. Your positions on this and other blogs show that you and Jack are more interested in capitalizing on what you perceive as Liberal weakness rather than doing what is right for the country.

Let's watch and see what happens when the NDP core decides to stay home on E-day, because they are fed up with his games.

Greg said...

James, do you know why the Tories use the "But, but, but, the Liberals did it too" defense so much? Because it is true. So spit on the NDP all you want. You are probably right, given our electoral system, the NDP will probably never be more than a fourth party, but so what? You support a party that says one thing and does another. A party that pretends to be progressive until it is in power (and as the last year has proven sometimes they even drop the pretense of being progressive even in opposition).

I am sick of a political system that limits our "choice" to two of the most dismal political organizations on the planet. Go ahead pretend it will be different with the Liberals in power. Your party's record on the environment and this Khadr case prove you wrong.

You talk about NDP supporters living in the past, you Liberals live in a time free, memory free, magical land where Liberals get automatic do overs and they are forever regaining their political virginity. Man, I would love to get my hands on what ever you guys smoke. It sure would make my life easier, to be that blissed out.

RuralSandi said...

Good grief - I think the Conservatives childishly blaming everyone else for their failures is long past the due date. Real leaders and grown-ups take responsibility.

You expect to hear kids say Johnnie hit me firt - but the PM of a country? Pathetic.

Hey, when's the next meeting between Harper and Layton for a Liberal bashing session? You know, where Harper tells Layton what to do.

James Curran said...

Give it up Greg. The NDP is losing its appeal nationwide. Soon there will be no presence anywhere...even provincially. Manitoba is the last great bastion for the Dippers. As I said, there is zero vision for Canada with the NDP. None. Nadda. Zilch. You guys better wake up before you're the fifth party in Canada.